Talk:Climate model

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Section sizes

Section size for Climate model (20 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	3,908	3,908
Uses	1,736	1,736
General circulation models (GCMs)	79	79
Energy balance models (EBMs)	2,434	16,469
Zero-dimensional models	612	9,281
Model with combined surface and atmosphere	6,273	6,273
Models with separated surface and atmospheric layers	2,396	2,396
Radiative-convective models	2,939	2,939
Higher-dimension models	1,815	1,815
Earth systems models of intermediate complexity (EMICs)	798	798
Box models	2,088	2,088
History	107	2,703
Increase of forecasts confidence over time	2,596	2,596
Coordination of research	1,357	1,357
Issues	14	1,804
Electricity consumption	1,718	1,718
Parametrization	72	72
See also	406	406
References	35	35
External links	1,279	1,279
Total	32,662	32,662

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Archives

Archive 1

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 February 2020 and 8 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sxin33. Peer reviewers: Danqiluo.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:51, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can see, the student editor User:Sxin33 did not edit this article in the end. EMsmile (talk) 09:33, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Any imbalance results in a change in temperature."

For the record, the incorrect/unsourced statement is "Any imbalance results in a change in temperature." Imbalance in systems can result in many other phenomena such as phase change. DTMGO (talk) 00:26, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Crickets......DTMGO (talk) 19:50, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

what do you mean by Crickets? And has your concern been address in the meantime? EMsmile (talk) 10:55, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Convection permitting models?

I am currently working on effects of climate change on the water cycle and a colleague recommended adding content from this open access paper: "Enhanced future changes in wet and dry extremes over Africa at convection-permitting scale" (link). I'm wondering if information on convection-permitting climate models should also be integrated into this article? This field is outside of my area of expertise so I am unsure. EMsmile (talk) 10:57, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do we need the section on box models?

I think the section on box models could probably be deleted. It doesn't seem to say much about actual climate models. For now, I have moved it to the end. EMsmile (talk) 10:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Re-thinking the structure

I would like to use more generic section headings (like "Uses", "Types", "Challenges" and so forth). But I am not deeply enough into this topic to be able to re-arrange things like this. I've reached out the Kevin E. Trenberth and he's sent me some quick inputs as follows:

++++

The section on “box models” should be deleted or changed. Possible structure for model types:

1. zero D energy balance models 
2. radiative-convective models. (these are 1D in vertical)
3. atmospheric models (weather prediction). (land, ocean, ice all specified)
4. climate models (modules for atmosphere, ocean, ice, land) not including chemistry: also called GCMs, or AOGCMS
5. climate system models; includes biogeochemistry (atmosphere and ocean), dynamic vegetation on land, aerosols, ozone etc.
6. Earth system models (everything)
7. EMICS
8. MAGICC: Model for the Assessment of Greenhouse Gas-Induced Climate Change. - widely used as a simple box-type model in IPCC; has no water cycle or weather etc. 
Meinshausen, M., S.C.B.B. Raper, and T.M.L.L. Wigley, 2011a: Emulating coupled atmosphere-ocean and carbon 1 cycle models with a simpler model, MAGICC6 – Part 1: Model description and calibration. Atmospheric 2 Chemistry and Physics, 11(4), 1417–1456, doi:10.5194/acp-11-1417-2011.
9. IAMs.  - see box16.2 of my book, deals with all human aspects, economics etc, but simple climate model with no water cycle:

"IAMs are mathematical computer models based on explicit assumptions about how the coupled human and natural system behaves. The modules within the IAM are often greatly simplified, but there may be many modules describing the climate, carbon cycle, and various human dimensions including demographics (population), politics, economics, standards of living, and societal behavior. The strength of an IAM is its ability to calculate the consequences of different assumptions and to interrelate many factors simultaneously, but an IAM is constrained by the quality and character of the assumptions and data that underlie the model."

You may also like this article from 2020 commentary on models. see esp p 332.  then to 335.
++++++

There are lots of books on climate models (see e.g. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/changing-flow-of-energy-through-the-climate-system/F6DEF9F0033FCD43398BFA9A2BF64FAD). The tough task is how to condense this into a Wikipedia article that laypersons can understand and follow. EMsmile (talk) 11:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chaotic system

I miss a reference to the fact that the climate is fundamentally a chaotic system. This is a very important point regarding climate models. The IPCC makes the following statements:

Climate Change 2021: The Physical Scientific Basis

1.5.4.2 Ensemble Modelling Techniques In some experiments, these initial states only differ slightly. As the climate system is chaotic, such tiny changes in initial conditions lead to different evolutions for the individual realizations of the system as a whole.

Annex VII Glossary A dynamical system such as the climate system, governed by non-linear deterministic equations, may exhibit erratic or chaotic behaviour in the sense that very small changes in the initial state of the system lead to large and apparently unpredictable changes in its temporal evolution. Such chaotic behaviour limits the predictability of the state of a non-linear dynamical system at specific future times, although changes in its statistics may still be predictable given changes in the system parameters or boundary conditions. Only physics (talk) 13:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Role of isoprene - CERN CLOUD

New publikation in the Nature:

Isoprene is the most abundant non-methane hydrocarbon emitted into the atmosphere, but its ability to nucleate particles in the boundary layer is considered negligible. Our findings show, however, that isoprene emitted by forests can drive rapid particle nucleation and growth in the upper troposphere. After further growth and descent to lower altitudes, these particles may represent a globally important source of CCN for shallow continental and marine clouds, and so influence Earth’s radiative balance. Isoprene from forests may therefore provide a major source of biogenic particles in both the present-day and pre-industrial atmospheres that are at present unaccounted in atmospheric chemistry and climate models.

Shen, J., Russell, D.M., DeVivo, J. et al. New particle formation from isoprene under upper-tropospheric conditions. Nature 636, 115–123 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-08196-0

Let's see what further research shows. Only physics (talk) 13:59, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]